What Strategy Now? (another discussion thread)

LumenPlacidum wrote:Yeah, sorry about that. I've been having a crazy time getting ready for my trip and I didn't see something that worked immediately. However, Cimri (93) is right on the front lines, but is not vulnerable to attack this turn (turn 27).

Well that might work, though I prefer to be nestled somewhere safe in your bosom! My stealth units can pass through your provinces pretty much undetected.

I have been pondering how I might help the south. The problem is that, generally speaking, Shinuyama's choices for mobility are extremely, extremely limited: I don't have gateway or even cloud trapeze on any of my mages, my ubas can cast Faery Trod but have base leadership 10, and that leaves basically Stygian paths which would probably mean losing a lot of troops and is thaumaturgy 8 besides, nowhere near my expected research path. I've come up with some alternatives, all of them limited.

1) Use my GK pretender. He can cloud trapeze and is set up with creation choices that make him decent as a supercombatant, though at this point he would need gear. Unfortunately, he's my only air mage at the moment, so I'd really like to get some other air mages first for site-searching before I put him into action. He also has some afflictions I'm hoping to heal with the Chalice before C'tis can start summoning Tartarians. If nothing else, he can establish a beachhead for me to start recruiting.

2) Circle around the ocean. I have a kelp fortress now so once I have free cash I'll start recruiting kappas. Then, I can swing around the edge, hopefully kick Vanheim out of the water, and take a land province or two to establish and fort and start recruiting on land in the south. If I can kick my research into gear, which probably means forging skull mentors, I can also summon the queens of elemental water.

3) Shinuyama has stealthy troops, unfortunately they're all awful. I wouldn't have real mage support or good troops if I had to sneak south.

4) I have some good summonable thugs/supercombatants, but they generally lack mobility. Kitsune can teleport and/or cloud trapeze with the right boosters and paths, but are not good thugs. Dai tengu are a little better as thugs, but have no particular advantages in that role. Both kitsune and tengu are quite expensive in terms of gems. The good thugs/supercombatants are ghost generals, oni generals, and dai oni--dai oni can *possibly* cloud trapeze, but they're a long ways off. To participate in the near future with thugs, I'll need a beachhead.

5) Assassins. One thought I've had recently is that Shinuyama gets an assassin unit. If I had appropriate gear, I could start recruiting some of those and send them south to try to assassinate Marignon's mages. Thoughts on that?

I think option two might be the quickest, and also perhaps serve to rid the seas of Vanheim. So instead of C'tis or Shinu using W gems to summon queens, perhaps Shin should focus on forging things like Shambler Skin Armor to get key mages and commanders to some southern beachhead, and the Sea King's Goblet to get troops to the South. W2 mages, perhaps with Water boosters, casting things like Shark Attack or whatever, should take out any non-Water mage armies of Vanheim en route.

Septimius Severus wrote:

LumenPlacidum wrote:Yeah, sorry about that. I've been having a crazy time getting ready for my trip and I didn't see something that worked immediately. However, Cimri (93) is right on the front lines, but is not vulnerable to attack this turn (turn 27).

Well that might work, though I prefer to be nestled somewhere safe in your bosom! My stealth units can pass through your provinces pretty much undetected.

Ah, I misunderstood, then. I thought you wanted easy access to the front. I can definitely point such a place out to you. Need to get back to my computer, though, which will happen later tonight.

TwoBits wrote:I think option two might be the quickest, and also perhaps serve to rid the seas of Vanheim. So instead of C'tis or Shinu using W gems to summon queens, perhaps Shin should focus on forging things like Shambler Skin Armor to get key mages and commanders to some southern beachhead, and the Sea King's Goblet to get troops to the South. W2 mages, perhaps with Water boosters, casting things like Shark Attack or whatever, should take out any non-Water mage armies of Vanheim en route.

I can start recruiting sea fathers soon--they have some native ability to lead troops in the water, and as we're kind of short of gems in general, I think that's a better path. I'll make up the difference with kappas and save gems for the queens of water, since I'm definitely getting conjuration after finishing construction 6 next turn. Since sea fathers can also cast school of sharks and such, I think that will put me in good shape for dealing with Vanheim.

iainuki wrote:

TwoBits wrote:I think option two might be the quickest, and also perhaps serve to rid the seas of Vanheim. So instead of C'tis or Shinu using W gems to summon queens, perhaps Shin should focus on forging things like Shambler Skin Armor to get key mages and commanders to some southern beachhead, and the Sea King's Goblet to get troops to the South. W2 mages, perhaps with Water boosters, casting things like Shark Attack or whatever, should take out any non-Water mage armies of Vanheim en route.

I can start recruiting sea fathers soon--they have some native ability to lead troops in the water, and as we're kind of short of gems in general, I think that's a better path. I'll make up the difference with kappas and save gems for the queens of water, since I'm definitely getting conjuration after finishing construction 6 next turn. Since sea fathers can also cast school of sharks and such, I think that will put me in good shape for dealing with Vanheim.

Right go to it Shin, as Admiral, having been given dominion over all noob sea provinces, and all sea provinces in general, we are counting on you (and to a lesser extent on Abyssia and Agartha) to keep us safe and prevent that bad dream of mine from becoming a reality. Whatever you need of us, you've only to ask.

Sept, I still recommend you take either my province Cimri (93), which has 0 PD and no troops or Vath (107) right next to it, which is a Marignon province and seems to have 6 militia and 1 PD. The area is essentially under control unless the unlikely happens and the harbinger flies up there.

LumenPlacidum wrote:Sept, I still recommend you take either my province Cimri (93), which has 0 PD and no troops or Vath (107) right next to it, which is a Marignon province and seems to have 6 militia and 1 PD. The area is essentially under control unless the unlikely happens and the harbinger flies up there.

Well if you've nothing else available with a low pd, I suppose I could take 107, as long as you will be filling in and attacking the provinces around me, though I would still prefer to be lodged in your interior. One because I don't want to attract attention and be attacked by vets easily, two because your liable to last the longest of the remaining southern vets and it will give me time to work. Whatever province you give me though, be sure your sub is aware.

Yeah, sept. somewhere with Lumen would be better. I don't really have any provinces I could give you that would be safe. Recall I've a large number of thugs running about raiding my land.

Ok, Lumen, Lupus, my revelers are on their way to 93 to set up shop.

Does anyone have a place for Pythium to set up shop down south? I'm loath to send my Harbinger this turn without a helmet (probably just get shot in the face by a slinger), but he should be ready next turn.

TwoBits wrote:Does anyone have a place for Pythium to set up shop down south? I'm loath to send my Harbinger this turn without a helmet (probably just get shot in the face by a slinger), but he should be ready next turn.

Hadn't Jottunheim set up a place for you?

Shin, we can certainly coordinate a central route south to dispose of your excess land troops in addition to your naval strategy. Especially if you've no other way to get them into action. Whenever your ready, you can come around via 245 or 231 (in coordination with Bandar). Would like a chance to throw my remaining troops at TC first if you want to move into 245 but if I can get my excess non stealthy troops south via Fairy Trod or some other mechanism, I really won't need a land route further south.

To Pangea ...

You sent a message telling me you'd be moving into Cimri (93) to set up shop behind my lines. I have a sizeable force there that could very easily get stuck, given an assault on it. And one of there super combatants is in Wic (91)

What I would suggest instead is popping into either Scantrast (103) or Amman Forest (121). You'd be near enough the front lines to do some damage, I've only got 3 PD there--plus a tiny garrison in 121 (13 Woodsman or so).

That being said, if you've got an AntiSC that can handle their Harbinger, dumping him into the enemy province of Vath(107) if you set up the retreat route in either of the other two might not be a bad idea. The Harbinger at the moment is in Wic (91). If you're interested in what he's got, I'd gladly update you.

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To All ...

That being said, anyone know if Seeking Arrow bypasses Magic Resistance / Shields? If so, I'd like to call in a few Seeking Arrows on Wic (91) this turn. I can offer to restock you with the necessary air gems. The SC it might knock out is the only thing in the province and is fielding 40 gems worth of equipment--and I don't know what the chassis itself costs. Its one of two I've seen from Marignon, getting it--and likely more importantly its equipment out of the field might well be a crippling blow for Marignon and well worth the few castings to insure it.

LumenPlacidum wrote:That being said, anyone know if Seeking Arrow bypasses Magic Resistance / Shields? If so, I'd like to call in a few Seeking Arrows on Wic (91) this turn. I can offer to restock you with the necessary air gems. The SC it might knock out is the only thing in the province and is fielding 40 gems worth of equipment--and I don't know what the chassis itself costs. Its one of two I've seen from Marignon, getting it--and likely more importantly its equipment out of the field might well be a crippling blow for Marignon and well worth the few castings to insure it.

I'd be willing to do it (and while Caelum is fighting for survival, I might be the only one capable), but I don't think Seeking Arrow will do any good against an SC - it bypasses MR, but I believe Armor (and Shields?) offers protection, and the arrows don't do a whole lot of damage - enough to kill some unarmored mage (so good against Marignon if they field mages in huge numbers), but not enough to do more than scratch (with a very low chance of a Chest Wound?) a thug or SC.

What's the MR (and does the target have Astral?)? Mind Duel might still be the way to go, if cast by a mage with +5 in Penetration items.

LumenPlacidum wrote:To Pangea ...

You sent a message telling me you'd be moving into Cimri (93) to set up shop behind my lines. I have a sizeable force there that could very easily get stuck, given an assault on it. And one of there super combatants is in Wic (91)

What I would suggest instead is popping into either Scantrast (103) or Amman Forest (121). You'd be near enough the front lines to do some damage, I've only got 3 PD there--plus a tiny garrison in 121 (13 Woodsman or so).

That being said, if you've got an AntiSC that can handle their Harbinger, dumping him into the enemy province of Vath(107) if you set up the retreat route in either of the other two might not be a bad idea. The Harbinger at the moment is in Wic (91). If you're interested in what he's got, I'd gladly update you.

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To All ...

That being said, anyone know if Seeking Arrow bypasses Magic Resistance / Shields? If so, I'd like to call in a few Seeking Arrows on Wic (91) this turn. I can offer to restock you with the necessary air gems. The SC it might knock out is the only thing in the province and is fielding 40 gems worth of equipment--and I don't know what the chassis itself costs. Its one of two I've seen from Marignon, getting it--and likely more importantly its equipment out of the field might well be a crippling blow for Marignon and well worth the few castings to insure it.

IIRC, from the testing reported in the main forum, Air Shield is the only thing that has a significant influence on Seeking Arrow. MR does not offer protection and the damage is AN - though every casting has a chance to miss, even if the target doesn't have gear affording an Air Shield.

LumenPlacidum... did you read the discussion between the captain and me in the Globals thread? How do you feel about giving up the Ultimate Gateway so we can set up Well of Misery? Do you have any D6 casters that could do it?

Seeking arrow does 8 (+drn -drn) armor negating damage. Protection is no protection from seeking arrows. Only air shield helps iirc.

Raiel wrote:IIRC, from the testing reported in the main forum, Air Shield is the only thing that has a significant influence on Seeking Arrow. MR does not offer protection and the damage is AN - though every casting has a chance to miss, even if the target doesn't have gear affording an Air Shield.

LumenPlacidum... did you read the discussion between the captain and me in the Globals thread? How do you feel about giving up the Ultimate Gateway so we can set up Well of Misery? Do you have any D6 casters that could do it?

Really? Seeking Arrow is AN? Well, that makes a big difference. Still, one (or even 2-3, which is the max I could cast this turn) is not likely to kill an SC with high HP. Maybe give him a Chest Wound, but that's likely it.

Lumen could very likely cast Well of Misery, if he has the necessary research and magic items. I'm pretty sure Machaka regularly fields D3 mages, so give one the two Death boosters, and a Ring of Sorcery/Wizardry, and there you go.

Until we have a plan for one player to really crank out lots of brutal goodness from the Gateway (maybe Bandar at some point?), it's probably best to leave it with Machaka - they can summon all the Death thugs, plus get most of the Fire and Earth Royalty, and summon lots of other stuff as well (Fairy Queens, Troll Kings, etc.).

Right, I'm summoning a mound fiend, so should be able to hit D6 if you guys pass me +3 in items.

The Harbinger:
HP: 35
Protection, Head: 24
Protection, Body: 15
Magic Resistance: 25
Defense: 19
A2H1 (its been muted)

Hmm, yeah if the damage from multiple seeking arrows stacks then you'd need 4 to hit, to guarantee a kill. A chest wound would certainly be detrimental, but wouldn't do the trick... I'm thinking my best bet is some sort of flying AntiSC with archer support. (he buffs with bless, then mistform, then air shield) Hopefully I'd interrupt the mistform and get him with the AntiSC, if not at least I'd interrupt the air shield and the archers could do their thing.

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Far as the Angel of Fury that seems to have flown off to harass someone else, Numbness might not be a bad move, doesn't allow MR and doesn't do damage so as not to trigger the blood vengeance.

That said, if you think you could bypass the MR by all means mind hunt would be welcome (do you have soul slay researched though?) I'd do it, but my only astral mage that can do it is my pretender--who is a monolith (so only one item slot). Of course I'd be willing to toss the astral pearls over.

LumenPlacidum wrote:That said, if you think you could bypass the MR by all means mind hunt would be welcome (do you have soul slay researched though?) I'd do it, but my only astral mage that can do it is my pretender--who is a monolith (so only one item slot). Of course I'd be willing to toss the astral pearls over.

I can try it and I have soul slay researched. its unlikely to succeed, but there's a chance. Province number?

Wic (91)

LumenPlacidum wrote:To Pangea ...

You sent a message telling me you'd be moving into Cimri (93) to set up shop behind my lines. I have a sizeable force there that could very easily get stuck, given an assault on it. And one of there super combatants is in Wic (91)

What I would suggest instead is popping into either Scantrast (103) or Amman Forest (121). You'd be near enough the front lines to do some damage, I've only got 3 PD there--plus a tiny garrison in 121 (13 Woodsman or so).

That being said, if you've got an AntiSC that can handle their Harbinger, dumping him into the enemy province of Vath(107) if you set up the retreat route in either of the other two might not be a bad idea. The Harbinger at the moment is in Wic (91). If you're interested in what he's got, I'd gladly update you.

To Machaka: I don't need/want anything close to the front lines, my stealth should be sufficient enough for me to get through your lines and strike at the enemy. I'd prefer something deep in your interior preferally as far south as possible that has few troops and as little pd as possible. I'll head for 103 in the meantime, but see if you can accomodate me elsewhere.

To everyone else: My Dryad and revelers are currently in 91, since they are stealthy they may not be hit by whatever you guys are planning, but in the case they might be, perhaps it would be better if they could be allowed to move out first.

Septimius Severus wrote:

LumenPlacidum wrote:To Pangea ...

You sent a message telling me you'd be moving into Cimri (93) to set up shop behind my lines. I have a sizeable force there that could very easily get stuck, given an assault on it. And one of there super combatants is in Wic (91)

What I would suggest instead is popping into either Scantrast (103) or Amman Forest (121). You'd be near enough the front lines to do some damage, I've only got 3 PD there--plus a tiny garrison in 121 (13 Woodsman or so).

That being said, if you've got an AntiSC that can handle their Harbinger, dumping him into the enemy province of Vath(107) if you set up the retreat route in either of the other two might not be a bad idea. The Harbinger at the moment is in Wic (91). If you're interested in what he's got, I'd gladly update you.

To Machaka: I don't need/want anything close to the front lines, my stealth should be sufficient enough for me to get through your lines and strike at the enemy. I'd prefer something deep in your interior preferally as far south as possible that has few troops and as little pd as possible. I'll head for 103 in the meantime, but see if you can accomodate me elsewhere.

To everyone else: My Dryad and revelers are currently in 91, since they are stealthy they may not be hit by whatever you guys are planning, but in the case they might be, perhaps it would be better if they could be allowed to move out first.

If your revelers are given the time to move out, it is likely that the harbinger will have moved as well. Were it to move to a location where it had support, I would not be able to assault it with my pretender effectively. However, I will refrain from casting mind hunt on the province, as that spell would be likely to target your commanders as well as the angel.

melnorjr wrote:If your revelers are given the time to move out, it is likely that the harbinger will have moved as well. Were it to move to a location where it had support, I would not be able to assault it with my pretender effectively. However, I will refrain from casting mind hunt on the province, as that spell would be likely to target your commanders as well as the angel.

Much obliged.