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This forum is the center of communication for Team Noob, for the Noobs vs. Vets Dominions MP game.


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Raiel
Hoplosternum
rdonj
viccio
TwoBits
melnorjr
Squirrelloid
LumenPlacidum
Septimius Severus
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    Strategy and Tactics of the Enemy

    Septimius Severus
    Septimius Severus
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    Post  Septimius Severus Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:21 am

    Here you may document what you've learned of the vets strategy, tactics, pretenders, etc. You may also describe any demonstrated succesful tactics or possible potential counters to be used against them. If applicable, be sure to indicate the nation you are referring to in the subject line of your post.
    LumenPlacidum
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    Post  LumenPlacidum Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:44 pm

    As a quick preliminary thing to watch out for: We have all blood nations but Vanheim. Vanheim's blood mages are decent combatants. This leads me to believe that the vets will be trying to cast that spell that causes some scary people to go out hunting down blood mages in the world. We should discuss how to combat this.
    Squirrelloid
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    Post  Squirrelloid Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:53 pm

    I don't plan on using blood magic.

    Also, you expect the game to last long enough for someone to actually cast that? I don't. I expect the game to be nasty, brutal, and short.
    melnorjr
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    Post  melnorjr Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:59 pm

    Squirrelloid wrote:I don't plan on using blood magic.

    Also, you expect the game to last long enough for someone to actually cast that? I don't. I expect the game to be nasty, brutal, and short.

    No, but abysia does.

    I could research enchantment 5 and dispell that in about 5 turns with zero notice. If anybody else is more likely to have enchantment then me, they could do it instead.
    Squirrelloid
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    Post  Squirrelloid Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:00 pm

    melnorjr wrote:
    Squirrelloid wrote:I don't plan on using blood magic.

    Also, you expect the game to last long enough for someone to actually cast that? I don't. I expect the game to be nasty, brutal, and short.

    No, but abysia does.

    I could research enchantment 5 and dispell that in about 5 turns with zero notice. If anybody else is more likely to have enchantment then me, they could do it instead.

    I'm going to have enchantment but no astral. (Needs me some fire arrows).
    TwoBits
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    Post  TwoBits Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:12 pm

    With our (hopefully) greater source of gems, I'm hoping we'll be able to dominate the Globals. Hopefully Smile

    Anyhow, with 3 Astral powerhouses, finding someone able to cast Dispel shouldn't be a problem (unless say, Pythium and Arco get wiped out early one Shocked ).
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    viccio


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    Post  viccio Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:11 pm

    You think that I should seek immediatly blood magic?
    rdonj
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    Post  rdonj Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:17 pm

    Usually people advise building up construction first, for dousing rods and possibly lanterns. You should probably start working on blood fairly early though. When exactly, I can't say.
    TwoBits
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    Post  TwoBits Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:53 pm

    Abysia can get B3 mages, which I don't think benefit much from Dousing Rods. I wouldn't make blood hunting an immediate priority though, as you don't probably want to do it in your capital. Once you clear out the neighborhood, and you've spotted a worthy province (between 5000-6000 or so population), yeah, I'd get a Warlock there and start stockpiling slaves.
    melnorjr
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    Post  melnorjr Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:09 pm

    TwoBits wrote:Abysia can get B3 mages, which I don't think benefit much from Dousing Rods. I wouldn't make blood hunting an immediate priority though, as you don't probably want to do it in your capital. Once you clear out the neighborhood, and you've spotted a worthy province (between 5000-6000 or so population), yeah, I'd get a Warlock there and start stockpiling slaves.

    What works really well is in any province with 4000+ population, get three blood hunters there and set taxes to zero. you won't gain unrest, and will rake in 20+ slaves a turn easy. Then of course, stick a lab there to pile your slaves into.
    rdonj
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    Post  rdonj Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:21 pm

    Generally speaking you use scouts to ferry the bloodslaves. More micromanagement, but less expensive. That said, using a lab is much easier.
    TwoBits
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    Post  TwoBits Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:31 pm

    And I believe that a population of 5000 is the cut-off point that guarantees successful blood-hunting - less than 5000, and there's a chance of getting nothing, even with B2 or better hunters. Or so I've heard.
    melnorjr
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    Post  melnorjr Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:33 pm

    TwoBits wrote:And I believe that a population of 5000 is the cut-off point that guarantees successful blood-hunting - less than 5000, and there's a chance of getting nothing, even with B2 or better hunters. Or so I've heard.

    Eh, could be. I'm not a blood specialist, what I posted was just what I read somewhere. having fiddled around with blood a little bit, it does work pretty well though.
    rdonj
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    Post  rdonj Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:37 pm

    TwoBits wrote:And I believe that a population of 5000 is the cut-off point that guarantees successful blood-hunting - less than 5000, and there's a chance of getting nothing, even with B2 or better hunters. Or so I've heard.

    Conventional wisdom is that it's best to blood hunt provinces close to 4k population.
    TwoBits
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    Post  TwoBits Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:49 am

    Here's Baalz' guide for EA Mictlan, which has a large section on Blood, relevant for Abysia, Jotunheim, and Pangaea I imagine:

    http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=33753

    It's old - 2007 - so it some things may have changed due to patches? Anyhow, one point he makes is that blood slaves are guaranteed (at least to a B2 mage or a B1 mage with a Dousing Rod) at 5000 population, but says it may be worth hunting provinces in the 3k-4k range if you have a cheap blood hunter (like a Mictlan priest).

    So, if Abysia is using his capital only Warlocks or Demonbreds (which are all he should be recruiting there anyway), it may be best to stick to 5k+ provinces to not waste valuable mage-time.

    But it may be economical for Jotunheim to hunt in 3-5k provinces with their cheap goblin-hags with the B1 random.
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    Post  viccio Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:18 am

    I reserch level 2/3 evocation (some battle spell) then turn to Blood and to turn 10 i start the blood hunting

    in case the item you will forge for me Razz
    TwoBits
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    Post  TwoBits Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:57 am

    Sounds good. Evocation-2 also allows you to cast Arcane Probing with your Warlocks. I or another astral nation can lend you astral gems to cast it until you can generate your own astral income.

    You don't need any research in Blood to start hunting, so consider hunting whenever you've got a Warlock or Demonbred to spare, and stockpile slaves for later use.

    How are you intending to search for Fire magic sites?
    Hoplosternum
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    Post  Hoplosternum Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:30 am

    TwoBits wrote:
    But it may be economical for Jotunheim to hunt in 3-5k provinces with their cheap goblin-hags with the B1 random.

    I am hoping to get in to Blood hunting before the end of the year, but it will depend on which randoms I get on my Vaetti Hags. I might not have any blood ones!

    The Jotun guide suggests using the Skratti for the first few slaves then making dousing rods (const 4) and then using the B1 Hags with the rods. I may do a bit of manual searching with a suitable Skratti and while he's out do a blood hunt or two to get some early slaves for forging. I usually only blood hunt in 5K+ provinces but maybe 3-4K ones make sense with the hags as its less lost income.

    But pressure might kill off these plans.
    melnorjr
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    Post  melnorjr Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:13 pm

    Eriu is going to be a problem. They have one HELL of an awake researcher. I've got an awake research God with 35 research points, and Eriu is significantly higher than me. he's got about 42 research a turn. Hes going to have thunderstrike by turn 4 if he wants it. Possibly a thunderstrike-spam rush?

    Marignon also seems to have an awake research god, albeit not quite as strong of one.
    melnorjr
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    Post  melnorjr Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:40 pm

    Eriu is using a great sage pretender with about 3 in every magic path - its the only possible way for him to have that much research. He also has close to 7 dom strength. to do this his scales have to be total crap. He's either going to sit there and research all day with his god, or he's going to site-search with it for huge gem income.
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    Post  viccio Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:41 pm

    TwoBits wrote:Sounds good. Evocation-2 also allows you to cast Arcane Probing with your Warlocks. I or another astral nation can lend you astral gems to cast it until you can generate your own astral income.

    You don't need any research in Blood to start hunting, so consider hunting whenever you've got a Warlock or Demonbred to spare, and stockpile slaves for later use.

    How are you intending to search for Fire magic sites?

    i need reserch thaumaturgy level 2
    LumenPlacidum
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    Post  LumenPlacidum Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:41 pm

    melnorjr wrote:Eriu is using a great sage pretender with about 3 in every magic path - its the only possible way for him to have that much research. He also has close to 7 dom strength. to do this his scales have to be total crap. He's either going to sit there and research all day with his god, or he's going to site-search with it for huge gem income.

    In CBM the female Titan pretender god has more research than the great sage base and certainly a higher dominion. Eriu I think can select this, so it could be a couple paths pretty big with mostly crappy scales.
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    Post  TwoBits Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:01 am

    LumenPlacidum wrote:
    melnorjr wrote:Eriu is using a great sage pretender with about 3 in every magic path - its the only possible way for him to have that much research. He also has close to 7 dom strength. to do this his scales have to be total crap. He's either going to sit there and research all day with his god, or he's going to site-search with it for huge gem income.

    In CBM the female Titan pretender god has more research than the great sage base and certainly a higher dominion. Eriu I think can select this, so it could be a couple paths pretty big with mostly crappy scales.

    We need to find Eriu fast and push him hard. Hopefully, they're in one of the center positions where our gang-ups are expected to happen. Expect Baalz to be pulling some mind-boggling magic evilness (Cloud Trapezing lighting spam would probably just be the tip of the iceberg). But he can only have so many mages at once (unless the other 5 feed him loads of gold for extra castles - but then again, I don't know if Eriu's non-capital mages are all that tough), so he needs to be kept occupied in as many different directions as possible.
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    Post  rdonj Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:39 am

    LumenPlacidum wrote:
    melnorjr wrote:Eriu is using a great sage pretender with about 3 in every magic path - its the only possible way for him to have that much research. He also has close to 7 dom strength. to do this his scales have to be total crap. He's either going to sit there and research all day with his god, or he's going to site-search with it for huge gem income.

    In CBM the female Titan pretender god has more research than the great sage base and certainly a higher dominion. Eriu I think can select this, so it could be a couple paths pretty big with mostly crappy scales.

    Eriu does not have access to the female titan pretender. I actually checked this earlier. The great sage has the highest rp of any eriu-available pretender god.
    melnorjr
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    Post  melnorjr Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:09 am

    rdonj wrote:
    LumenPlacidum wrote:
    melnorjr wrote:Eriu is using a great sage pretender with about 3 in every magic path - its the only possible way for him to have that much research. He also has close to 7 dom strength. to do this his scales have to be total crap. He's either going to sit there and research all day with his god, or he's going to site-search with it for huge gem income.

    In CBM the female Titan pretender god has more research than the great sage base and certainly a higher dominion. Eriu I think can select this, so it could be a couple paths pretty big with mostly crappy scales.

    Eriu does not have access to the female titan pretender. I actually checked this earlier. The great sage has the highest rp of any eriu-available pretender god.

    Yes, that's why I said great sage rather than titan. I'm using the female titan pretender to get 35 research while still having pretty good scales.



    And I agree with twobits. I think we need to get anti-shock items forged as soon as possible, especially with both Van an eriu on the vet side and eriu now pushing magic so hard. I believe Caelum would be best for this probably, but if anybody else can forge them it might be good to do so or look into it.

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