+9
Raiel
Hoplosternum
rdonj
viccio
TwoBits
melnorjr
Squirrelloid
LumenPlacidum
Septimius Severus
13 posters
Strategy and Tactics of the Enemy
Septimius Severus- Moderator
- Number of posts : 642
Location : Pangaea
Registration date : 2009-02-01
- Post n°1
Strategy and Tactics of the Enemy
Here you may document what you've learned of the vets strategy, tactics, pretenders, etc. You may also describe any demonstrated succesful tactics or possible potential counters to be used against them. If applicable, be sure to indicate the nation you are referring to in the subject line of your post.
LumenPlacidum- Number of posts : 237
Location : Machaka, Southeast start
Registration date : 2009-02-01
As a quick preliminary thing to watch out for: We have all blood nations but Vanheim. Vanheim's blood mages are decent combatants. This leads me to believe that the vets will be trying to cast that spell that causes some scary people to go out hunting down blood mages in the world. We should discuss how to combat this.
Squirrelloid- Number of posts : 238
Location : Shinuyama
Registration date : 2009-06-26
I don't plan on using blood magic.
Also, you expect the game to last long enough for someone to actually cast that? I don't. I expect the game to be nasty, brutal, and short.
Also, you expect the game to last long enough for someone to actually cast that? I don't. I expect the game to be nasty, brutal, and short.
melnorjr- Number of posts : 306
Location : Arcoscephale
Registration date : 2009-06-03
Squirrelloid wrote:I don't plan on using blood magic.
Also, you expect the game to last long enough for someone to actually cast that? I don't. I expect the game to be nasty, brutal, and short.
No, but abysia does.
I could research enchantment 5 and dispell that in about 5 turns with zero notice. If anybody else is more likely to have enchantment then me, they could do it instead.
Squirrelloid- Number of posts : 238
Location : Shinuyama
Registration date : 2009-06-26
melnorjr wrote:Squirrelloid wrote:I don't plan on using blood magic.
Also, you expect the game to last long enough for someone to actually cast that? I don't. I expect the game to be nasty, brutal, and short.
No, but abysia does.
I could research enchantment 5 and dispell that in about 5 turns with zero notice. If anybody else is more likely to have enchantment then me, they could do it instead.
I'm going to have enchantment but no astral. (Needs me some fire arrows).
TwoBits- Number of posts : 427
Location : Pythium
Registration date : 2009-06-12
With our (hopefully) greater source of gems, I'm hoping we'll be able to dominate the Globals. Hopefully
Anyhow, with 3 Astral powerhouses, finding someone able to cast Dispel shouldn't be a problem (unless say, Pythium and Arco get wiped out early one ).
Anyhow, with 3 Astral powerhouses, finding someone able to cast Dispel shouldn't be a problem (unless say, Pythium and Arco get wiped out early one ).
viccio- Number of posts : 97
Location : Abysia
Registration date : 2009-03-31
You think that I should seek immediatly blood magic?
rdonj- Admin
- Number of posts : 555
Location : Admin
Registration date : 2009-01-31
Usually people advise building up construction first, for dousing rods and possibly lanterns. You should probably start working on blood fairly early though. When exactly, I can't say.
TwoBits- Number of posts : 427
Location : Pythium
Registration date : 2009-06-12
Abysia can get B3 mages, which I don't think benefit much from Dousing Rods. I wouldn't make blood hunting an immediate priority though, as you don't probably want to do it in your capital. Once you clear out the neighborhood, and you've spotted a worthy province (between 5000-6000 or so population), yeah, I'd get a Warlock there and start stockpiling slaves.
melnorjr- Number of posts : 306
Location : Arcoscephale
Registration date : 2009-06-03
- Post n°10
Re: Strategy and Tactics of the Enemy
TwoBits wrote:Abysia can get B3 mages, which I don't think benefit much from Dousing Rods. I wouldn't make blood hunting an immediate priority though, as you don't probably want to do it in your capital. Once you clear out the neighborhood, and you've spotted a worthy province (between 5000-6000 or so population), yeah, I'd get a Warlock there and start stockpiling slaves.
What works really well is in any province with 4000+ population, get three blood hunters there and set taxes to zero. you won't gain unrest, and will rake in 20+ slaves a turn easy. Then of course, stick a lab there to pile your slaves into.
rdonj- Admin
- Number of posts : 555
Location : Admin
Registration date : 2009-01-31
- Post n°11
Re: Strategy and Tactics of the Enemy
Generally speaking you use scouts to ferry the bloodslaves. More micromanagement, but less expensive. That said, using a lab is much easier.
TwoBits- Number of posts : 427
Location : Pythium
Registration date : 2009-06-12
- Post n°12
Re: Strategy and Tactics of the Enemy
And I believe that a population of 5000 is the cut-off point that guarantees successful blood-hunting - less than 5000, and there's a chance of getting nothing, even with B2 or better hunters. Or so I've heard.
melnorjr- Number of posts : 306
Location : Arcoscephale
Registration date : 2009-06-03
- Post n°13
Re: Strategy and Tactics of the Enemy
TwoBits wrote:And I believe that a population of 5000 is the cut-off point that guarantees successful blood-hunting - less than 5000, and there's a chance of getting nothing, even with B2 or better hunters. Or so I've heard.
Eh, could be. I'm not a blood specialist, what I posted was just what I read somewhere. having fiddled around with blood a little bit, it does work pretty well though.
rdonj- Admin
- Number of posts : 555
Location : Admin
Registration date : 2009-01-31
- Post n°14
Re: Strategy and Tactics of the Enemy
TwoBits wrote:And I believe that a population of 5000 is the cut-off point that guarantees successful blood-hunting - less than 5000, and there's a chance of getting nothing, even with B2 or better hunters. Or so I've heard.
Conventional wisdom is that it's best to blood hunt provinces close to 4k population.
TwoBits- Number of posts : 427
Location : Pythium
Registration date : 2009-06-12
- Post n°15
Re: Strategy and Tactics of the Enemy
Here's Baalz' guide for EA Mictlan, which has a large section on Blood, relevant for Abysia, Jotunheim, and Pangaea I imagine:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=33753
It's old - 2007 - so it some things may have changed due to patches? Anyhow, one point he makes is that blood slaves are guaranteed (at least to a B2 mage or a B1 mage with a Dousing Rod) at 5000 population, but says it may be worth hunting provinces in the 3k-4k range if you have a cheap blood hunter (like a Mictlan priest).
So, if Abysia is using his capital only Warlocks or Demonbreds (which are all he should be recruiting there anyway), it may be best to stick to 5k+ provinces to not waste valuable mage-time.
But it may be economical for Jotunheim to hunt in 3-5k provinces with their cheap goblin-hags with the B1 random.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=33753
It's old - 2007 - so it some things may have changed due to patches? Anyhow, one point he makes is that blood slaves are guaranteed (at least to a B2 mage or a B1 mage with a Dousing Rod) at 5000 population, but says it may be worth hunting provinces in the 3k-4k range if you have a cheap blood hunter (like a Mictlan priest).
So, if Abysia is using his capital only Warlocks or Demonbreds (which are all he should be recruiting there anyway), it may be best to stick to 5k+ provinces to not waste valuable mage-time.
But it may be economical for Jotunheim to hunt in 3-5k provinces with their cheap goblin-hags with the B1 random.
viccio- Number of posts : 97
Location : Abysia
Registration date : 2009-03-31
- Post n°16
Re: Strategy and Tactics of the Enemy
I reserch level 2/3 evocation (some battle spell) then turn to Blood and to turn 10 i start the blood hunting
in case the item you will forge for me
in case the item you will forge for me
TwoBits- Number of posts : 427
Location : Pythium
Registration date : 2009-06-12
- Post n°17
Re: Strategy and Tactics of the Enemy
Sounds good. Evocation-2 also allows you to cast Arcane Probing with your Warlocks. I or another astral nation can lend you astral gems to cast it until you can generate your own astral income.
You don't need any research in Blood to start hunting, so consider hunting whenever you've got a Warlock or Demonbred to spare, and stockpile slaves for later use.
How are you intending to search for Fire magic sites?
You don't need any research in Blood to start hunting, so consider hunting whenever you've got a Warlock or Demonbred to spare, and stockpile slaves for later use.
How are you intending to search for Fire magic sites?
Hoplosternum- Number of posts : 235
Location : Jotunheim
Registration date : 2009-06-15
- Post n°18
Re: Strategy and Tactics of the Enemy
TwoBits wrote:
But it may be economical for Jotunheim to hunt in 3-5k provinces with their cheap goblin-hags with the B1 random.
I am hoping to get in to Blood hunting before the end of the year, but it will depend on which randoms I get on my Vaetti Hags. I might not have any blood ones!
The Jotun guide suggests using the Skratti for the first few slaves then making dousing rods (const 4) and then using the B1 Hags with the rods. I may do a bit of manual searching with a suitable Skratti and while he's out do a blood hunt or two to get some early slaves for forging. I usually only blood hunt in 5K+ provinces but maybe 3-4K ones make sense with the hags as its less lost income.
But pressure might kill off these plans.
melnorjr- Number of posts : 306
Location : Arcoscephale
Registration date : 2009-06-03
- Post n°19
Re: Strategy and Tactics of the Enemy
Eriu is going to be a problem. They have one HELL of an awake researcher. I've got an awake research God with 35 research points, and Eriu is significantly higher than me. he's got about 42 research a turn. Hes going to have thunderstrike by turn 4 if he wants it. Possibly a thunderstrike-spam rush?
Marignon also seems to have an awake research god, albeit not quite as strong of one.
Marignon also seems to have an awake research god, albeit not quite as strong of one.
melnorjr- Number of posts : 306
Location : Arcoscephale
Registration date : 2009-06-03
- Post n°20
Re: Strategy and Tactics of the Enemy
Eriu is using a great sage pretender with about 3 in every magic path - its the only possible way for him to have that much research. He also has close to 7 dom strength. to do this his scales have to be total crap. He's either going to sit there and research all day with his god, or he's going to site-search with it for huge gem income.
viccio- Number of posts : 97
Location : Abysia
Registration date : 2009-03-31
- Post n°21
Re: Strategy and Tactics of the Enemy
TwoBits wrote:Sounds good. Evocation-2 also allows you to cast Arcane Probing with your Warlocks. I or another astral nation can lend you astral gems to cast it until you can generate your own astral income.
You don't need any research in Blood to start hunting, so consider hunting whenever you've got a Warlock or Demonbred to spare, and stockpile slaves for later use.
How are you intending to search for Fire magic sites?
i need reserch thaumaturgy level 2
LumenPlacidum- Number of posts : 237
Location : Machaka, Southeast start
Registration date : 2009-02-01
- Post n°22
Re: Strategy and Tactics of the Enemy
melnorjr wrote:Eriu is using a great sage pretender with about 3 in every magic path - its the only possible way for him to have that much research. He also has close to 7 dom strength. to do this his scales have to be total crap. He's either going to sit there and research all day with his god, or he's going to site-search with it for huge gem income.
In CBM the female Titan pretender god has more research than the great sage base and certainly a higher dominion. Eriu I think can select this, so it could be a couple paths pretty big with mostly crappy scales.
TwoBits- Number of posts : 427
Location : Pythium
Registration date : 2009-06-12
- Post n°23
Re: Strategy and Tactics of the Enemy
LumenPlacidum wrote:melnorjr wrote:Eriu is using a great sage pretender with about 3 in every magic path - its the only possible way for him to have that much research. He also has close to 7 dom strength. to do this his scales have to be total crap. He's either going to sit there and research all day with his god, or he's going to site-search with it for huge gem income.
In CBM the female Titan pretender god has more research than the great sage base and certainly a higher dominion. Eriu I think can select this, so it could be a couple paths pretty big with mostly crappy scales.
We need to find Eriu fast and push him hard. Hopefully, they're in one of the center positions where our gang-ups are expected to happen. Expect Baalz to be pulling some mind-boggling magic evilness (Cloud Trapezing lighting spam would probably just be the tip of the iceberg). But he can only have so many mages at once (unless the other 5 feed him loads of gold for extra castles - but then again, I don't know if Eriu's non-capital mages are all that tough), so he needs to be kept occupied in as many different directions as possible.
rdonj- Admin
- Number of posts : 555
Location : Admin
Registration date : 2009-01-31
- Post n°24
Re: Strategy and Tactics of the Enemy
LumenPlacidum wrote:melnorjr wrote:Eriu is using a great sage pretender with about 3 in every magic path - its the only possible way for him to have that much research. He also has close to 7 dom strength. to do this his scales have to be total crap. He's either going to sit there and research all day with his god, or he's going to site-search with it for huge gem income.
In CBM the female Titan pretender god has more research than the great sage base and certainly a higher dominion. Eriu I think can select this, so it could be a couple paths pretty big with mostly crappy scales.
Eriu does not have access to the female titan pretender. I actually checked this earlier. The great sage has the highest rp of any eriu-available pretender god.
melnorjr- Number of posts : 306
Location : Arcoscephale
Registration date : 2009-06-03
- Post n°25
Re: Strategy and Tactics of the Enemy
rdonj wrote:LumenPlacidum wrote:melnorjr wrote:Eriu is using a great sage pretender with about 3 in every magic path - its the only possible way for him to have that much research. He also has close to 7 dom strength. to do this his scales have to be total crap. He's either going to sit there and research all day with his god, or he's going to site-search with it for huge gem income.
In CBM the female Titan pretender god has more research than the great sage base and certainly a higher dominion. Eriu I think can select this, so it could be a couple paths pretty big with mostly crappy scales.
Eriu does not have access to the female titan pretender. I actually checked this earlier. The great sage has the highest rp of any eriu-available pretender god.
Yes, that's why I said great sage rather than titan. I'm using the female titan pretender to get 35 research while still having pretty good scales.
And I agree with twobits. I think we need to get anti-shock items forged as soon as possible, especially with both Van an eriu on the vet side and eriu now pushing magic so hard. I believe Caelum would be best for this probably, but if anybody else can forge them it might be good to do so or look into it.
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