Turn 5

Raiel wrote:It's not a strategic location unless the vets push us back quite far.

And I disagree with you about the fort... unless your nation's mages are completely useless in combat and worthless at researching, building a fort is about the opportunity to recruit national mages and leaders (like pans in this case). So, quick and cheap seems better to me than expensive and slow.

Yeah, I agree, of course. But unless you plan on building a fort in every one of your provinces (that's a nice goal, of course, but not really practical ), you can always build one elsewhere (and I think Pan has plenty of places to choose from now ).

I was just thinking that, if the fighting came that way, C'tis would have a natural advantage there (like a free casting of Curse of Stones that affected all enemies with no MR save), that's all. Hopefully, we'll steamroll (we can dream, can't we?) Ermor and contain Vet number 2, and then it wont matter.

But unless you plan on building a fort in every one of your provinces (that's a nice goal, of course, but not really practical ), you can always build one elsewhere (and I think Pan has plenty of places to choose from now ).

Of course this is my plan... I thought everyone realized that I intend to drown the world in Marsh Masters backing up Tatarians!

Raiel wrote:I have the open field adjacent to Ermor's eastern two provinces. He has no visible armies on that side... perhaps he doesn't like the idea of fighting in Miasma? I didn't expect that to be a deterrent to his undead, but perhaps it is the old-age mages that would need to lead them he's considering.

I can have two armies next to him if I delay expansion, but I'd prefer to wait a turn or two to solidify my position first... I should be able to start pushing him within the next three turns.

I'd like to point out this is MA Ermor. Great death mages, *no* death gem income to start with. And as his gem income hasn't improved from the start, that means he *still* has no death gem income, barring events. So don't expect undead yet. Expect fire!

You're right about his lack of summoning, but check out his research (15)... I'm quite certain he's been reanimating undead calvary for at least 2 turns.

Squirrelloid wrote:I'd like to point out this is MA Ermor. Great death mages, *no* death gem income to start with. And as his gem income hasn't improved from the start, that means he *still* has no death gem income, barring events. So don't expect undead yet. Expect fire!

No starting Death Gem income? Wow, that is good to know!

Then again, his allies could supply him with some. Plus, his priests can all reanimate (and I suspect that's what his prophet has been doing from the get-go), so I suspect he has plenty of Deadite fodder available already.

remember the others can give him death gems if he has the research to summon anything. I think he needs Enchant 2 for the Mound King which is the default early undead general.

He currently has 15 research. That's not even enchantment I. This means no skelly spam. Kill now, questions later?

Squirrelloid wrote:He currently has 15 research. That's not even enchantment I. This means no skelly spam. Kill now, questions later?

I'm liking Ermor as an early target. Mine and C'tis' research is for crap, but Ermor's isn't much better. Plus, we both have powerful H3 priests available if it came to an immediate brawl. Throw in Yomi's strong death magic, it might make a good case for a "strong-North" strategy. Crush Ermor as fast as we can, and roll them up in order (as per Squirreloid's suggestion).

I think we need to find out who Vet 2 is before we can really consider it (if it's Baalz, do we hold off, or do we even go crazy in the north to try to put him down before he gets too much research under his belt?), but I think it's a possibility. Both C'tis and Pythium match up well against Ermor - combined, well, that's very interesting! Throw Shinuyama on there, and heck, maybe some help from Pangaea, well...

Yes but his priests can reanimate. From the start His Grand Thaumaturgs (Holy 3) get a few Longdead Cavalry a turn and the rest can churn out undead infantry if wanted/needed.

From his army size he probably doesn't have many yet but he could fairly soon if he tries for it.

Also his undead sacred Vestals could have a decent bless on them. Probably not worth the full double bless treatment but they are etherial....

I doubt he will use spells to get chaff undead as their best mages can reanimate about the same number for free each turn. But who know what they will do?

TwoBits wrote:

Squirrelloid wrote:He currently has 15 research. That's not even enchantment I. This means no skelly spam. Kill now, questions later?

I'm liking Ermor as an early target. Mine and C'tis' research is for crap, but Ermor's isn't much better. Plus, we both have powerful H3 priests available if it came to an immediate brawl. Throw in Yomi's strong death magic, it might make a good case for a "strong-North" strategy. Crush Ermor as fast as we can, and roll them up in order (as per Squirreloid's suggestion).

I think we need to find out who Vet 2 is before we can really consider it (if it's Baalz, do we hold off, or do we even go crazy in the north to try to put him down before he gets too much research under his belt?), but I think it's a possibility. Both C'tis and Pythium match up well against Ermor - combined, well, that's very interesting! Throw Shinuyama on there, and heck, maybe some help from Pangaea, well...

Baalz must die. But if he's V2 I'd rather do it with V1 dead. Now, if Marignon would take his turn already... (I'm honestly hoping V2 is Ashdod, of all the stupid things to hope for).

[quote="TwoBits"]

Squirrelloid wrote: Both C'tis and Pythium match up well against Ermor - combined, well, that's very interesting! Throw Shinuyama on there, and heck, maybe some help from Pangaea, well...

Yes Holy 3 priests should make short work of him. And combined with your good starts....

Of course he may be playing a largely none undead strategy because of the fear of our priests. Ermor (amphibious) being most likely at one of the poles wasn't hard to work out.

Hoplosternum wrote:Of course he may be playing a largely none undead strategy because of the fear of our priests. Ermor (amphibious) being most likely at one of the poles wasn't hard to work out.

But he'd have no way of knowing he'd be sandwiched between Pythium and C'tis. He's certainly learned of one of our existences by now, and possibly both, and if I were him, I'd be s**ting bricks But like I said, he'd have no way of knowing that until he (or his allies - and he's only got 5, not 11) found out with a scout.

Amphibious? No worries there until he get's Mound Kings (Ench 1 or 2?), and even then, undead are pretty lame under water unless in huge numbers, or against crap opposition. All the more reason to press him ASAP, and make him use his dead on the land, and not in the water (and all the more reason for Shinuyama and Agartha to head north fast too - nip this threat in the bud!).


OK, time for me to pack it in. No Marignon turn before I retire for the day Come up with some good stuff while I'm gone you guys!

Raiel wrote:Honestly, I'd prefer to let you hold 303 and 281 against V2 (depending on who it is) and I'll attack him from the pass to his north after/while I squeeze Ermor. I'm not set on this approach, but it leaves us both with a solid front. Let me know what you think.

As for 311... I'd say you should take that and build a cheap fort on it for mage recruitment. Believe it or not, unless they're surrounded by forests and mountains, swamp territories are the least desirable land for C'tis because of the 1200 gold/6-month forts we build there. They do make good choke points for C'tis, though.

Your access route to v2 may be blocked in the north by Ermor, which is why I suggest you take 303,306, 317, that and you may be squeezed for space up there.