Turn 31

Well, nothing worked for me last turn, at all. A stray arrow took out my commander in Winter Peaks (218), routing my army. Bad scripting on my part (Viccio didn't leave me any info on what T'ien Chi's battle formation was like, I didn't hear anything else from anyone else, and I forgot to press people) and inadequate combat magic (Evo 3, no Conj for phoenix power) let T'ien Chi rout me in Sleepy Wolds (209), though they took some losses there. In Vician Forest (180), the troops I'd grabbed from neighboring provinces were slaughtered, including all but one of the commanders I committed, by thunderstrike, 30 new einheres gatewayed in by an adept of the silver order, and glamored PD. In the water, Vanheim's armies took out the lesser horrors I tried raiding them with (hey, it worked once...) and a new army of 15 claymen and 60-odd random tritons and such appeared in Embracer (19). The only good things of note that happened are that I took back Triton Sea (57), which is an amber clan province and the answer to how Abysia will get water magic, provided I can hold onto it; and that I captured T'ien Chi's fort in Binophe (182).

To summarize: help!!!

Agartha, I especially need your support. Move into Antediluvia (162) and Winter Peaks ASAP; you're going to need to siege and capture Sleepy Wolds I doubt I can hold the water without support, and I'm still trying to figure out what Abysia, of all nations, is doing in the water in the first place, but now that I'm here, I might as well roll with it.

For research, I need conjuration and better evocation ASAP, because while the land combat is almost done, it is obviously not done enough for me to neglect real fire magic. I'm going to start forging hidden lanterns with my fire income unless someone can give me skull mentors.

I got nothing I asked for last turn so I'm just going to repost the same list, with some additions.

• Cash. I need to hire mages, troops to deal with the Vanheim incursion in Vician forest, more amphibious troops to fight Vanheim in the ocean, and temples/labs various places to hold dominion (Abysia has awesome scales, so in general it's good to spread my dominion) and open more mage recruitment. Shamblers are hugely expensive and really the best troops I have access to at the moment for amphibious combat.
  
• Earth boots and earth gems. I'd give a number of earth boots, but there's really no limit to the amount of these I can use right now. They have four big functions, all of them awesome: site-searching for earth (I don't know why Viccio didn't do this much earlier), forging blood stones, forging my own hammers/earth boots/crystal coins, and (after forging a blood stone) summoning Pedoseion. Once I have the boots, I will likewise need vast quantities of earth gems, for the same purposes.
  
• Thistle maces and nature gems. While Viccio has site-searched nature some, there are a ton of unsearched provinces, including the entire ocean, and lots of mages available to cast haruspex. I have one thistle mace so if I can get a hammer, I can make my own.
  
• Hammers. I can make items other noobs can't or have more trouble with, blood stones and blood boosters in particular, but I can also make many the things I need myself if I can just get the hammers and gems.
  
• Astral pearls. I need these for site-searching (I have lizard shamans and warlocks to cast arcane probing) and forging starshine caps/crystal coins. (Obviously, if someone has some extra astral boosters lying around, I can use those, too.) With these items, I can start teleporting my mages, gatewaying troops, and using more remote attacks like send horror.
  
• A ring of water breathing so I can build a temple/lab in the amber clan province. I don't think they can summon the ice devils underwater, but they can certainly cast voice of Apsu and Tiamat to get Abysia real gem income.
  

Ashdod attacked me to break the siege with a bunch of slingers, ghouls, and an Adon (and there were two other commanders in there *somewhere*...). They broke on the first round of combat to dai-bakemono longbow fire.

I've broken Ashdod's walls in their capitol. Noticed their dominion only went down 5 - ok, we're storming this bad boy.

Broke the walls of the TC fortress in Carnag - storming. Come on, send your deva after me. I want to eat a pretender.

Finished clearing out the last northern water indie. Agartha, my ocean armies are headed south - am i taking provinces from you?

Hiring 200 bakemono-sho (160 archers, 40 melee screen) and 2 bakemono shamans (Ld 40 sneaky leaders) to start a stealth army.

Otherwise hiring some water units and some mages.

Forging:
2x thistle mace (yeah, i'll have a use for them soon)
1x staff of the elements
1x flaming skull
2x scepter of authority
1x water bracelet
probably some other stuff

Arcane probing like a mofo. I'm up to 5 probes/trn and 10 pearls/turn in income. Some day the astral powers will thank me for this... (ok, the game will probably end first, but still).

Needs:
-Treelords staff (seriously, do we not have one?)
-mild amounts of fire and water gems
-a decent amount of nature gems

Returning the chalice this turn. Thanks!

Edit: Who is passing the skullface for the Well of Misery anyway?

iainuki wrote:

Agartha, I especially need your support. Move into Antediluvia (162) and Winter Peaks ASAP; you're going to need to siege and capture Sleepy Wolds I doubt I can hold the water without support, and I'm still trying to figure out what Abysia, of all nations, is doing in the water in the first place, but now that I'm here, I might as well roll with it.

[/list]

Done and Done.

I took the fort this last turn and will move my forces where needed.

I am moving into the water with my large force of big guys. So that should help, but will just use the the water guys I have currently.

Well, one thing Pangaea has is tons of troops. Glad I have so many, as I lost about 200 or so in my second attempt to seige TC's cap. I knew the Deva was there (and will probably remain there) though her presence distracted the mercs and my center troops (who were to contend with TC's large PD) leading to a rather unseemly loss. I did manage to kill a few mages and about 20 regular troops, and bunch of PD of course. I will pause a turn to recoup and try again next turn.

Shinuyama, if you take that fort in Carnag, you may also wish to give it a whirl next turn.

C'tis, if Ashdod's cap is successfully captured, you may wish to take the fort I offered and move south with that large force, though it probably won't be necessary. And you'll probably be able to gateway them elsewhere or something to put them into play.

Agartha, you may split your force of 400 in 228 and take a shot at the cap while your moving towards 218,206.

Abyssia, what is TC's force concentration in 206? I don't see much in 218.

No attacks planned this turn. Wish my research didn't suck.

Mother Oak is up. Nature income is 21 per month. I sent almost every noob some nature gems last turn and will continue to do so as I am able.

If Agartha chooses not to attack TC's cap, I'll cast Rain of Toads on it.

Lumen, I'm on my way to 74, almost there.

Noob Gold Total - 709,325
Noob Gem Total - 5,061

Vet Gold Total - 219,778
Vet Gem Total - 2,011

TC's army appears to be reduced rather dramatically in size over the last 2 or so turns. Good job there.

Why don't you soften up TC's cap. I have nothing to really beat the big guy there at all.

If we need to throw my troops against him to help soften him up I will do so next turn.

I will throw something at his cap as well. Fires from Afar, or something maybe. I will have to take a look at what I can throw.

OK, kind of surprised, but Atul did not try to attack 134. So now I've got 2 Angels, 8 Arch Theurgs, and a regular Theurg there, and I can now Gateway in 200+ troops along with two more Arch Theurgs this turn. Time to coordinate with Ulm, Jotunheim, and Caelum, on what to do next.

I'm still worried about a counter attack (but of course will now in a better position to defend myself), so this turn I'd like to CT one Angle, and a supporting mage, to the barbarian province of 128 next door. This would give me a place to retreat to if I were to be routed in 134. And both 134 and 128 can be given back to Ulm or whoever, once I move to the attack further south.


Up north, I attacked Ashdod at 320 with about 50 or so infantry. He still had 4 Adons there, so of course I got crushed. That's no big deal at this point, but I did notice something interesting - he'd stripped the Adons of all their gear except for Bracers of Protection

Now he could be giving away his possessions to other Vets in anticipation of his imminent demise, but I doubt it. I think his "attempt" to break Shinu's siege was just a stunt, to get rid of chaff that might cause a rout during any final battle. The 4 Adons in 320 had no way of realistically fighting their way back in, so I believe he took their best gear, and has likely given it to whatever uber-units he has left in his fortress - and there'll be no weak units left to cause an untimely collapse.

So Shinu, expect to find the castle defended by several tricked out SCs. I know he's got at least one national hero, who might be like an Adon on steroids. So be prepared for a tough fight!


Iainuki, I'm sending Abysia 500gp, and 9 N gems. If needed, I can forge a Ring of Water Breathing (or Shambler Skin Armor?), if no one else has anything ready for you.

Pelthin wrote:Why don't you soften up TC's cap. I have nothing to really beat the big guy there at all.

If we need to throw my troops against him to help soften him up I will do so next turn.

I will throw something at his cap as well. Fires from Afar, or something maybe. I will have to take a look at what I can throw.

I've been softening up the cap for the past two or three turns and will continue to do so, but if you'd like to try your hand, let me know when your ready. What else are ya gonna do with all those troops you've got?

If you don't want to attack the cap this turn, go ahead and throw some remote spells at TC's cap, Fires from Afar, anything you've got. Abyssia, another Rain of Toads on TC's cap probably wouldn't hurt.

I was just on IRC and TheDemon says, in response to an unrelated question someone asked: "I think atul has been using A4s for fog warriors in noobs vs vets 3...". Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall anyone mentioning his use of fog warriors on the noob forums. This is a pretty gaping omission. Fog warriors is a very powerful spell which should seriously be taken into account by anyone who intends to try to fight his armies.

I'm not going to do something like this again in the future, and am only doing it this time because you theoretically should already know about it, but seriously everyone needs to know when the vets can cast spells of this magnitude.

In short, I'm not in a bad way. The battle for Scytha (78) rages on with Marignon. They won't be able to breach my walls unless they get troop reinforcements from Cimri (93) and Venna (53). Each province has 1 astral mage and 3 commanders. If anyone could lay down a few seeking arrows on these places that would go a long way to cutting off retreat zones and stopping reinforcements. That said, cutting off retreat zones is my current best hope for killing these SCs. I've got a plan to try and fatigue them out when the battle arrives, but they are immune to everything, lucky, and/or blood vengeance'd. So its a bit tough.

As an aside, in a couple of turns I should be geared up to cast volcanic eruption on a fairly regular basis while I further gear up to do flames from the sky. At which point I'd be more than happy to do the casting for whomever desires it--given they can supply the fire gems. That said, I may be able to supplement to some extent, but I've had some crummy luck in gem income. If anyone has any air boosters sitting around and would prefer death gems--I have faery queens but no boosters with which to cast raven's feast (after said eruptions). Just throwing it out there as an option.

Out of curiosity anyone know specifically how the dispelling will work for well of misery if cast at a conj bonus site. That is, its only 40 for me to cast instead of 80. But if they dispel does it then check gems over 40?

TwoBits wrote:Up north, I attacked Ashdod at 320 with about 50 or so infantry. He still had 4 Adons there, so of course I got crushed. That's no big deal at this point, but I did notice something interesting - he'd stripped the Adons of all their gear except for Bracers of Protection

Now he could be giving away his possessions to other Vets in anticipation of his imminent demise, but I doubt it. I think his "attempt" to break Shinu's siege was just a stunt, to get rid of chaff that might cause a rout during any final battle. The 4 Adons in 320 had no way of realistically fighting their way back in, so I believe he took their best gear, and has likely given it to whatever uber-units he has left in his fortress - and there'll be no weak units left to cause an untimely collapse.

So Shinu, expect to find the castle defended by several tricked out SCs. I know he's got at least one national hero, who might be like an Adon on steroids. So be prepared for a tough fight!

This plan might backfire on him. I noticed all my mages casting bane fires at his *undead chaffe* instead of valuable targets. Presumably because they feel they can kill more individuals that way. Of course, if he strips himself of chaffe, my mages will happily target his big bad Adons. Not that their accuracy is that great (even with eyes of aiming), but I only need to hit once... Regardless, my army there is *gigantic*.

Keep preaching, we may just domkill him anyway.

LumenPlacidum wrote:

Out of curiosity anyone know specifically how the dispelling will work for well of misery if cast at a conj bonus site. That is, its only 40 for me to cast instead of 80. But if they dispel does it then check gems over 40?

I don't know I'm afraid.

But dispelling none game killer globals is unlikely to be high up on their list of priorities. They don't know that you have not put extra gems in. Nor that we aren't going to cast a global a turn from here on in.

They might try dispels of course. But I think they would be better off summoning extra Harbingers or casting their own globals. Arcane Nexus for example may give them a shot of winning the game, us having Well of Misery is helpful to us but hardly in that league.

Last post didn't appear

Reposting....

JOTUN

Attacking Vanheim at Dragon Pointe (59) in the south by ULm's army

Attacking Marignon at Niefel (54) in the south-central area

Attacking Marignon at Jome (106) in the East to grab some scouts

Thanks to everyone who sent Thug equipment. I should be able to make 2-3 more good Skratti Thugs now. Thanks!

rdonj wrote:I was just on IRC and TheDemon says, in response to an unrelated question someone asked: "I think atul has been using A4s for fog warriors in noobs vs vets 3...". Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall anyone mentioning his use of fog warriors on the noob forums. This is a pretty gaping omission. Fog warriors is a very powerful spell which should seriously be taken into account by anyone who intends to try to fight his armies.

I'm not going to do something like this again in the future, and am only doing it this time because you theoretically should already know about it, but seriously everyone needs to know when the vets can cast spells of this magnitude.

Very interesting, keep that info coming.

I think I recall some of you guys talking about Fog Warriors in another thread but I think your right that no one has mentioned it being used by any of the vets.

Septimius Severus wrote:

rdonj wrote:I was just on IRC and TheDemon says, in response to an unrelated question someone asked: "I think atul has been using A4s for fog warriors in noobs vs vets 3...". Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall anyone mentioning his use of fog warriors on the noob forums. This is a pretty gaping omission. Fog warriors is a very powerful spell which should seriously be taken into account by anyone who intends to try to fight his armies.

I'm not going to do something like this again in the future, and am only doing it this time because you theoretically should already know about it, but seriously everyone needs to know when the vets can cast spells of this magnitude.

Very interesting, keep that info coming.

I think I recall some of you guys talking about Fog Warriors in another thread but I think your right that no one has mentioned it being used by any of the vets.

I am not fighting the proper Vanheim armies at the moment so don't know if he has this, he has certainly never used it against me. It is tough to cast (alt 7, A5 caster, 300 fatigue). But this is a real killer spell. Mistform for the whole army. It would make an army of Skinshifters untouchable except by decent Thugs/SCs. It all but negates all standard hits as Skinshifters regenerate 2hps a round. Even those attacks which pop the mistform only do 1 hp that attack. So basically it gives the 'two lives' Skinshifters a third life. One for Mistform, one for human form then the werewolf. All for 25 gold and 7 resouces.

I mentioned it earlier with regards to Caelum. Going up the path to Fog Warriors would have given him this real battle winner spell (Mistformed Mammoths!) where as he had gone up the Evocation path to get Shimmering Fields etc, which while good is not in the same league and is especially weak vs Skinshifters due to their second shape.

It is certainly something we should be looking out for. It will make most of our armies redundent if he can get enough casters that can use it. I am puzzled that he isn't overrunning us with this. Maybe he is trying in the East? Or perhaps Arco & Machaka are fielding too many mages and Thugs to make it worth while. But he rarely seems to be building Skinshifters at his second or third fort. Nor has he maxed out forts to mass them quickly if needed (he still only has 3). Quite frankly I think we have been lucky so far as I can't think of a strat to stop this efficently.

LumenPlacidum wrote:Out of curiosity anyone know specifically how the dispelling will work for well of misery if cast at a conj bonus site. That is, its only 40 for me to cast instead of 80. But if they dispel does it then check gems over 40?

I think that bug has been fixed, but I am not certain. In any event, I think that for this situation in particular, just cast a minimal one? It's 30 gems/dispel, so if they dispel a 40-gem well of misery, with our gem advantage that's a win for us.

iainuki wrote:

LumenPlacidum wrote:Out of curiosity anyone know specifically how the dispelling will work for well of misery if cast at a conj bonus site. That is, its only 40 for me to cast instead of 80. But if they dispel does it then check gems over 40?

I think that bug has been fixed, but I am not certain. In any event, I think that for this situation in particular, just cast a minimal one? It's 30 gems/dispel, so if they dispel a 40-gem well of misery, with our gem advantage that's a win for us.

I concur. We should always spend the minimum on our globals. If they want to blow 30+ S gems on a dispel, I say let them - it'll be less Harbingers and other Astral goodies we have to face. If they repeatedly try to dispel our globals, then we might want to think of using extra gems in casting. But honestly, I doubt they'd even bother.


Regarding the Southern Front, I miscalculated and/or didn't think things through fully. Gateway needs an S4 mage, and most of mine are S3, and if I put a Starshine Skullcap on an S3, I can't use the Crown of Command, significantly reducing the number of troops he could transport (and not making it worth the 10 S gem cost). So this turn, only 90 units will be heading south to Linshire (134). But they include many premium units, so they will be combat ready. And I'm also Teleporting S4 mages to the necessary places now, so next turn, I should be able to Gateway in another 180.

Nothing special happened this turn.
Attacking Gent (98) and Midge Fens (45).