Turn 10

Witnessed that scuffle between Abysia and Eriu. Ha! Take that SMITE TO THE FACE!

Recruited an A2 enchantress, so I have started remote searching for air sites with my shiny new thaumaturgy. Got my second fortress up and I'm building a lab there. Unfortunately, all my black sorcerers are F2E3D1, so I *still* cannot cast flames from afar.

Starting work on an archer army for the far off flaming arrows.

Nothing has really changed on C'tis' front, but I did get a chance to see the enemy in action:







So, my priests are almost useless for stopping these Vestals... Banish will only rarely pierce through MR-18, and the first time it does is negated. The combination of ethereal and twist fate has the same effect on my melee units. I can bring 4 death mages up to the front to spam Dust to Dust, but an offensive without these mages is risky (at best).

Considering that he hasn't moved his forces since we started this little standoff, I'd say this vet is definitely "reacting" to me. With 4 forts, I can mass undead-slaying mages much more effectively than he can mass undead. Especially if TwoBits can chip away at him from the other side.

I'm willing to stay defensive or take the risk of the offensive. So, captain... orders?

i encountered eriu in 136 and 146 and T'ien Ch'i in 193

I kill 2 commander of Eriu...

I think that i need Help...

O.K... I just ran through some tests to confirm my suspicions. Banish will be useless against the Vestals, as I feared. Suprisingly, poison is INCREDIBLY effective against them. Poison damage seems to ignore Twist Fate, too. I have poison slingers, but no way to ensure they deliver their package to the right address.

I'd still prefer to wait one turn (for my mages to get to the front) before pressing the attack, but I do have a slim chance of winning this one if I strike now.

Just let me know what you prefer...

Met Ermor in two battles, split decision.

Took 348 from heavy (20+) PD only, casualties were 5 gladiators.

Lost when attacking 340, although I took plenty of Ermorians with me. Unfortunately, only two were Shadow Vestals As Raiel has noted, they have a wicked bless - with S9, my prophet's banishments were useless, and with F9, they were able to hack through the heavy armor on my Serpent Cataphracts eventually (took some time at least, allowing me to kill off a Censor, 40 regular troops, and 6 Longdead Horsemen).

Handling them will require other magic (and moving mages to the front lines), preferably the kind that doesn't require an MR check.

I plan on consolidating and reinforcing, before I consider going back on the offensive.

Scouting report on Ermor: At his capital, 30 units, mainly Longdead Horsemen and Shadow Vestals; at 340, the 17 Shadow Vestals that kicked my butt, plus a smattering of infantry, and a Grand Thaumaturg; at 354, 5 Lion Tribe Archers and moderate PD; at 345, 3 Lion Tribe Archers and light PD. Will have more information coming in following turns.


Hm, just saw Raiel's latest post. Poison works? Might be time to try out some Hydras. I'll have to think about that...

Raiel wrote:Nothing has really changed on C'tis' front, but I did get a chance to see the enemy in action: ....

So, my priests are almost useless for stopping these Vestals... Banish will only rarely pierce through MR-18, and the first time it does is negated. The combination of ethereal and twist fate has the same effect on my melee units. I can bring 4 death mages up to the front to spam Dust to Dust, but an offensive without these mages is risky (at best).

Considering that he hasn't moved his forces since we started this little standoff, I'd say this vet is definitely "reacting" to me. With 4 forts, I can mass undead-slaying mages much more effectively than he can mass undead. Especially if TwoBits can chip away at him from the other side.

I'm willing to stay defensive or take the risk of the offensive. So, captain... orders?

This post (especially the images) may be better suited to the strategies and tactics thread (mind if I move it?). I'd prefer to keep the turn threads limited to textual descriptions of what you did. Plans for next turn, provinces attacking, provinces the enemy attacked you in, troop movements, special issues, limited battle descriptions, etc. Want to make sure we keep some semblence of order and make use of other threads when appropriate.

Any other vulnerable province targets? I say keep the pressure up if you can, as soon as you can, but dust to dust would certainly be helpful. Of course melnorjr may have other advice.

viccio wrote:i encountered eriu in 136 and 146 and T'ien Ch'i in 193

I kill 2 commander of Eriu...

I think that i need Help...

What was the outcome, did you take both provinces?

Septimius Severus wrote:

viccio wrote:i encountered eriu in 136 and 146 and T'ien Ch'i in 193

I kill 2 commander of Eriu...

I think that i need Help...

What was the outcome, did you take both provinces?

I saw his prophet kick the crap out of Eriu's pair of expansion thugs. Really lucky with a smite that bypassed the air shield on the sidhe lord and dropped mistform and glamor at the same time.

LumenPlacidum wrote:

Septimius Severus wrote:

viccio wrote:i encountered eriu in 136 and 146 and T'ien Ch'i in 193

I kill 2 commander of Eriu...

I think that i need Help...

What was the outcome, did you take both provinces?

I saw his prophet kick the crap out of Eriu's pair of expansion thugs. Really lucky with a smite that bypassed the air shield on the sidhe lord and dropped mistform and glamor at the same time.

So it was a successful defense of at least one province?

An intersting turn for me. One of my attacks on indies failed due to heavy cavalry. The other suceeded only to be lost when Ashdod attacked and routed my rather unprepared army in 281 via an Adon and five Sheshei's. I see a force of TC heavy horse in my neighboring province.

Ctis' 303 is in jeapardy at the moment. I have about 30 units nearby that could attempt to retake the lost province, have to run some tests though, it is unlikely. May have to settle for a fort in 295. Moving troops up to the front as quickly as possible. Wished I'd not posted my fort plans.

More later.

LumenPlacidum wrote:

Septimius Severus wrote:

viccio wrote:i encountered eriu in 136 and 146 and T'ien Ch'i in 193

I kill 2 commander of Eriu...

I think that i need Help...

What was the outcome, did you take both provinces?

I saw his prophet kick the crap out of Eriu's pair of expansion thugs. Really lucky with a smite that bypassed the air shield on the sidhe lord and dropped mistform and glamor at the same time.

Smite isn't affected by air shield as it is not a missile attack.

Raiel wrote:O.K... I just ran through some tests to confirm my suspicions. Banish will be useless against the Vestals, as I feared. Suprisingly, poison is INCREDIBLY effective against them. Poison damage seems to ignore Twist Fate, too. I have poison slingers, but no way to ensure they deliver their package to the right address.

I'd still prefer to wait one turn (for my mages to get to the front) before pressing the attack, but I do have a slim chance of winning this one if I strike now.

Just let me know what you prefer...

Get your mages first. But your probably going to end up chasing his army while it runs away from you at this point.

and btw, if you set your poison slingers to fire closest, the vestals will run right through the poison clouds.

poison slingers are your key right now, especially if you use skellies to tank for you while your slingers poison the army to death.

Well my Capital is besieged. So income and recruitment are now down.

But the besiegers can't harm my walls until he adds in his other army. And even then some giants amongst the 80 odd defenders so it will be hard for him to breach the walls. I will get Construction 2 next turn so I should be able to build some gear including a Cauldron or two so I don't starve.

I see Caelum has an army next to me. Isurian (30) should be free of all but 1 of my PD if you are coming my way!

Marignon has not attacked and moved his army away. Can't see it now so not sure what is happening there.

I am going to attack Dural Woods (81) in the north if that is OK with Caelum?

Hoplosternum wrote:Well my Capital is besieged. So income and recruitment are now down.

But the besiegers can't harm my walls until he adds in his other army. And even then some giants amongst the 80 odd defenders so it will be hard for him to breach the walls. I will get Construction 2 next turn so I should be able to build some gear including a Cauldron or two so I don't starve.

I see Caelum has an army next to me. Isurian (30) should be free of all but 1 of my PD if you are coming my way!

Marignon has not attacked and moved his army away. Can't see it now so not sure what is happening there.

I am going to attack Dural Woods (81) in the north if that is OK with Caelum?

I'm expecting battle with a vanheim army nest turn. He sees an empty province of mine and has an army next to it. he's got no shot of winning the battle either, because he's going to run 40 skinshifters into 30 elephants, some infantry, and 4 mages.

Twobits - I no longer need air gems, agartha has obscuro now. I don't know if he has any air gems, so I'm sending him two.

melnorjr wrote:

Raiel wrote:O.K... I just ran through some tests to confirm my suspicions. Banish will be useless against the Vestals, as I feared. Suprisingly, poison is INCREDIBLY effective against them. Poison damage seems to ignore Twist Fate, too. I have poison slingers, but no way to ensure they deliver their package to the right address.

I'd still prefer to wait one turn (for my mages to get to the front) before pressing the attack, but I do have a slim chance of winning this one if I strike now.

Just let me know what you prefer...

Get your mages first. But your probably going to end up chasing his army while it runs away from you at this point.

and btw, if you set your poison slingers to fire closest, the vestals will run right through the poison clouds.

poison slingers are your key right now, especially if you use skellies to tank for you while your slingers poison the army to death.

Unfortunately, with as many chaff units as he has deployed, my slingers would likely waste all six shots long before the Vestals made it to the front lines. But I do think I'll recruit a few more.

Raiel wrote:

melnorjr wrote:

Raiel wrote:O.K... I just ran through some tests to confirm my suspicions. Banish will be useless against the Vestals, as I feared. Suprisingly, poison is INCREDIBLY effective against them. Poison damage seems to ignore Twist Fate, too. I have poison slingers, but no way to ensure they deliver their package to the right address.

I'd still prefer to wait one turn (for my mages to get to the front) before pressing the attack, but I do have a slim chance of winning this one if I strike now.

Just let me know what you prefer...

Get your mages first. But your probably going to end up chasing his army while it runs away from you at this point.

and btw, if you set your poison slingers to fire closest, the vestals will run right through the poison clouds.

poison slingers are your key right now, especially if you use skellies to tank for you while your slingers poison the army to death.

Unfortunately, with as many chaff units as he has deployed, my slingers would likely waste all six shots long before the Vestals made it to the front lines. But I do think I'll recruit a few more.

right, but as his army moved forward the vestals would run through the poison clouds that your slingers leave wherever they shoot. the slingers would still be shooting the front line, but as his whole army moved, his vestals would travel over that spot.

And you're assuming his archers aren't set to fire archers, to thereby annihilate my slingers before they fire a second (or first) shot, right?

Raiel wrote:And you're assuming his archers aren't set to fire archers, to thereby annihilate my slingers before they fire a second (or first) shot, right?

They could be, and probably will be pretty quickly if they aren't now. so you split your slingers up into several smaller groups.

More detailed report later, but ow, Sheshai Anakim are a beating. Especially when there are 10 of them and they regenerate.

Lost virtually my entire army (certainly the entire useful component, except my prophet) to kill 9 units, mostly 3 Galeadites, a couple Edomites, and the balance in slingers. Then proceeded to watch the Sheshai Anakim just eat the remainder of my army (who didn't break until my forces were almost totally spent - so at least morale is high!).

I broke the Edomites and slingers in short order, but those crazy sheshai have like 19 morale and are virtually invulnerable. (My dai-bakemono can hit them, but they have better defense and each hit is 1-8ish damage).

So, I have Conj 3 almost 4, alt 1, and evoc 1. What should i be (a) summoning, (b) casting in combat to deal with these guys? What should i be researching. (Current plan is to finish conj 4 and start running down evocation as fast as I can). I've got a bakemono sorceror moving up to launch 4 cold strikes before retreating, but each of those is still only 2/5 of a Sheshai Anakim's hps.

I've got ~55 dai-bakemono and a mage or two that can meet him in my next province down the line.

I also lost a province adjoining my capitol to a knight attack event. This is annoying, to say the least, especially as it reduces the number of dai-bakemono I can produce by 4 (and I'm not completely sure what kind of army i need to deal with 16 knights).

Squirrelloid wrote:More detailed report later, but ow, Sheshai Anakim are a beating. Especially when there are 10 of them and they regenerate.

Lost virtually my entire army (certainly the entire useful component, except my prophet) to kill 9 units, mostly 3 Galeadites, a couple Edomites, and the balance in slingers. Then proceeded to watch the Sheshai Anakim just eat the remainder of my army (who didn't break until my forces were almost totally spent - so at least morale is high!).

I broke the Edomites and slingers in short order, but those crazy sheshai have like 19 morale and are virtually invulnerable. (My dai-bakemono can hit them, but they have better defense and each hit is 1-8ish damage).

So, I have Conj 3 almost 4, alt 1, and evoc 1. What should i be (a) summoning, (b) casting in combat to deal with these guys? What should i be researching. (Current plan is to finish conj 4 and start running down evocation as fast as I can). I've got a bakemono sorceror moving up to launch 4 cold strikes before retreating, but each of those is still only 2/5 of a Sheshai Anakim's hps.

I've got ~55 dai-bakemono and a mage or two that can meet him in my next province down the line.

I also lost a province adjoining my capitol to a knight attack event. This is annoying, to say the least, especially as it reduces the number of dai-bakemono I can produce by 4 (and I'm not completely sure what kind of army i need to deal with 16 knights).

Shesai anakinm have high armor, high def, and berserk. he's got an earth bless for reinvigoration - for good reason. he's worried about fatigue. berserk increases encumbrance too, so that's even more reason to worry about it.


your best option I think is to fatigue them out. there are several ways to do this. Ao-oni are good, particularly for this, since they do stun damage.

you also might want to research enchantment 3 to get skeleton spam to help fatigue him out, which will also get you strength of giants, which would do a lot to get more damage through his high prot, especially if you went evocation 2 for rust mist.

Earth meld in alteration 2 would also help because it would mess up his grouping of troops, letting you swarm him better.

You also could try bakemono-sho(those 8g 1r ones) to waste his time and help fatigue him out.


And the last thing you want to do is fight a battle you cannot win. if you have to, run away and get reinforcements rather than fighting an army you know will beat you.

melnorjr wrote:

Squirrelloid wrote:More detailed report later, but ow, Sheshai Anakim are a beating. Especially when there are 10 of them and they regenerate.

Lost virtually my entire army (certainly the entire useful component, except my prophet) to kill 9 units, mostly 3 Galeadites, a couple Edomites, and the balance in slingers. Then proceeded to watch the Sheshai Anakim just eat the remainder of my army (who didn't break until my forces were almost totally spent - so at least morale is high!).

I broke the Edomites and slingers in short order, but those crazy sheshai have like 19 morale and are virtually invulnerable. (My dai-bakemono can hit them, but they have better defense and each hit is 1-8ish damage).

So, I have Conj 3 almost 4, alt 1, and evoc 1. What should i be (a) summoning, (b) casting in combat to deal with these guys? What should i be researching. (Current plan is to finish conj 4 and start running down evocation as fast as I can). I've got a bakemono sorceror moving up to launch 4 cold strikes before retreating, but each of those is still only 2/5 of a Sheshai Anakim's hps.

I've got ~55 dai-bakemono and a mage or two that can meet him in my next province down the line.

I also lost a province adjoining my capitol to a knight attack event. This is annoying, to say the least, especially as it reduces the number of dai-bakemono I can produce by 4 (and I'm not completely sure what kind of army i need to deal with 16 knights).

Shesai anakinm have high armor, high def, and berserk. he's got an earth bless for reinvigoration - for good reason. he's worried about fatigue. berserk increases encumbrance too, so that's even more reason to worry about it.


your best option I think is to fatigue them out. there are several ways to do this. Ao-oni are good, particularly for this, since they do stun damage.

you also might want to research enchantment 3 to get skeleton spam to help fatigue him out, which will also get you strength of giants, which would do a lot to get more damage through his high prot, especially if you went evocation 2 for rust mist.

Earth meld in alteration 2 would also help because it would mess up his grouping of troops, letting you swarm him better.

You also could try bakemono-sho(those 8g 1r ones) to waste his time and help fatigue him out.

And the last thing you want to do is fight a battle you cannot win. if you have to, run away and get reinforcements rather than fighting an army you know will beat you.

So you're saying I shouldn't engage him this next turn? Noted.

I should have Evocation 2 (rust mist) next turn. After that I suppose enchantment isn't an awful place to park my research for a little while.

It looks like the Yari troops are strictly superior, since they get a chance to repel (and the extra resource is not an issue...)

The problem with not engaging him next turn is then I'm out of choke points - unless by some miracle he doesn't attack...

Edit: Ok, the resource 4 ones are just as accessible to me as the others - yay abundant resources?

I didn't quite say don't fight him. I don't know the situation there quite as well as you. if you think you can win, do it, if not, don't fight him and waste troops.

melnorjr wrote:I didn't quite say don't fight him. I don't know the situation there quite as well as you. if you think you can win, do it, if not, don't fight him and waste troops.

20 PD + 55 dai-bakemono + 2 mages, 1 spamming frighten, one 'spamming' cold bolt. (He could also spam frighten). Vs. 10 Sheshai Anakim, 1 Adon, 1 Zuzzumite. He might take the time to retrieve his slingers/edomites, but i doubt it.

I think I would be in better shape for a combat next turn with rusting mist, but then i have no chokepoint.

Edit: Basically, does anyone think I have a chance in the combat described above? What kind of odds?

His last deployment: Sheshai-Anakim, Adon, Zuzzumite placed halfway back and holding

Proposed deployment: dai-bakemono on hold and attack rear placed as far forward as possible on the flanks. PD is obviously a mass that will come up the middle while i'm holding (and firing). Mages behind dai-bakemono on one flank (my right - should be opposite where his SAnakim were) to improve their chance of landing spells.

Notable benefits: This should let at least half of my dai-bakemono get around behind him and envelope him. Also, since his Zuzzumite is right behind his SAnakim, I might be able to snipe him with my archer fire.

Edit Edit: Hey C'Tis - care to brutalize Ashdod from your end - i think this will lead to rampaging raiding armies rather than a big fight unless i guess lucky next turn. Fortunately I have good cash-generation from oceanic provinces which he can't get to...

I'm a turn or two away from engaging Ashdod on my southern border. It will be awhile before that has any impact on your situation.

If you have any spells that grant a precision bonus, you're better off using those (earth grip could at least stagger the formation and give you a chance to swarm each giant individually). I'm assuming your mages are the big-guys (300g) - they can't hit the broad side of a barn door in the middle of the day with a laser scope and the hand of God himself guiding their spell casting.

Yes, I think you have a chance. Not a particularly good one, though. BTW, check your PM again if you haven't already.