NvV3: Pre-game Discussion

My current list of preferred nations is as follows:

1) C'tis
2) Vanheim
3) Arcoscephale
4) Ulm
5) Ermor

rdonj wrote:I'll accept anyone that you have listed in the game thread on the other forum whenever they sign up. I think it would be better to have everyone here as soon as possible so the nation picks can get well ironed out before the game gets underway.

I agree.

Has anyone garnered any ideas for new threads by looking at the vets archived forum? I know they used one for globals, but if I remember correctly, there was one or two others that may be of use to us as well. I'll have to go have another look.

I think if we have first pick we absolutely want to take Ashdod. Everyone knows they are one of the most if not the most powerful nation, and I don't think we really want them in the hands of a vet - particularly in a team game. Ashdod with support from other nations would be very dangerous. However, if we do end up fighting Ashdod, I think I can fight them to a standstill with Vanheim - I'm not sure I could do this unsupported in a team game because they will be able to somewhat cover their weaknesses, but I think I stand a shot.

One thing that might be interesting is if we could reasonably guess the vet's nation choices, we could deliberately pick nations that we think we can counter their likely choices with reasonably effectively. I'm not sure how predictable they are likely to be though - this is my first real MP game, nor do I know any of the vets.

A renewal of the forging thread from the first noobs game would probably be a good idea, whether there's a designated forger or not.

My understanding of the Age and what nations we would need.

1. Ashdod
2. Pythium
3. Shinuyama
4. Caelum
5. Jottunheim
6. Man
7. (SKAVEN)

The first two seem to be rather strong. Shinuyama makes a very good research/construction nation. And Caelum would be very nice for harassing the vets. And Skaven, because I just like them so much.

I want to say Man, but unless you can get something to boost there archers and stuff early. They can't put up much of a fight as time goes on.
I'm also guessing, but if we take a blood nation or two. We will need make it a whole team effort to gather Blood Slaves. As in the last game it took to long for us to set up that economy.

Well as I'm hoping to be Skaven or Shinuyama in this game. I'm looking to be a forger for the bulk of the game.

Also what map will we be using. If possible we need a copy of the map with the numbers on it.

Lavaere wrote:My understanding of the Age and what nations we would need.
Ashdod, Pythium, Shinuyama, Caelum, SKAVEN
The first two seem to be rather strong. Shinuyama makes a very good research/construction nation. And Caelum would be very nice for harassing the vets. And Skaven, because I just like them so much.

I agree with Ashdod(of course. I mentioned them.) and Caelum. the ability to harass we would get from Caelum would be very valuable, not to mention that thunder strike spam puts out some good damage.

I'm also guessing, but if we take a blood nation or two. We will need make it a whole team effort to gather Blood Slaves. As in the last game it took to long for us to set up that economy.

I'm not sure about this one. people with no blood magic are incredibly bad at gathering blood slaves, and it isn't as if we will have bunches of spare commanders we can devote to the effort. if the blood nation supplies others with rods, then maybe it would be viable, but I would still hesitate to pledge many of my commanders to blood hunting early on.

Lavaere wrote:Well as I'm hoping to be Skaven or Shinuyama in this game. I'm looking to be a forger for the bulk of the game.

Also what map will we be using. If possible we need a copy of the map with the numbers on it.

The map, a symmetrical one, will pretty much be determined by how many players we can get. Currently we've only got 10 players in all, so it's looking like WOG or World of Symmetry or a similar smaller map right now. What numbers were you refering to? You mean starting locations? I won't have nation numbers and starting province numbers until we actually finish nation selection.
As usual we will have at least an initial expansion map with starting locations. But I recall last time you did a pretty good job with later expansion maps, what the deal on that front? Or do you want someone else to try?

melnorjr wrote:I think if we have first pick we absolutely want to take Ashdod. Everyone knows they are one of the most if not the most powerful nation, and I don't think we really want them in the hands of a vet - particularly in a team game. Ashdod with support from other nations would be very dangerous. However, if we do end up fighting Ashdod, I think I can fight them to a standstill with Vanheim - I'm not sure I could do this unsupported in a team game because they will be able to somewhat cover their weaknesses, but I think I stand a shot.

One thing that might be interesting is if we could reasonably guess the vet's nation choices, we could deliberately pick nations that we think we can counter their likely choices with reasonably effectively. I'm not sure how predictable they are likely to be though - this is my first real MP game, nor do I know any of the vets.

Since Unoptimized and namad (so far) get to pick before anybody else, we'll want to communicate our must haves to him (he should already be on the forum though, hmm) when ready.

Yes, it would be good to know what the vets will take, though I think it is reasonable to assume they will try to take whatever the "power" nations are in MA as well. Other than that though, I don't know. We do know what Lingchih and the TheDemon took in the previous game(s), and we can search the forum to find out what nations they took/are taking in other games, but without any inside info it would still be merely speculation or an educated guess at best. But it is better than nothing. Hehe.

I think he meant a map that shows the province numbers on it. Having a map with province numbers on it would be very useful, I know when I subbed for fomoria I had a heck of a time finding the provinces I was supposed to send seeking arrows at. I hate the way dominions handles province numbers.

Also I am thinking it might be better to just do maps how the vets did, and occasionally post a screenshot/screenshots of what you can see. It would be easier to do and more informative than any of the ways we managed to come up with, if a bit less comprehensive.

rdonj wrote:I think he meant a map that shows the province numbers on it. Having a map with province numbers on it would be very useful, I know when I subbed for fomoria I had a heck of a time finding the provinces I was supposed to send seeking arrows at. I hate the way dominions handles province numbers.

Also I am thinking it might be better to just do maps how the vets did, and occasionally post a screenshot/screenshots of what you can see. It would be easier to do and more informative than any of the ways we managed to come up with, if a bit less comprehensive.

Oh, well I suppose a map with all the provinces numbers would indeed be helpful, sounds like a bit of an undertaking though (you'd have to switch back and forth between the game and your drawing program). I know that in the map editor at least, you can simply load up the map and right click on any province to get the province number, I can't remember if you can do the same in-game.

How did the vets handle maps last game? I can't remember. They did, I believe, have an initial map showing starting locations like us (that's what I meant by an expansion map, sorry). If people want to update it on a regular basis, I'm sure everyone will be OK with it. I would think we would need this at least, anything else would be great as well.

I've just been playing some test games in MA.
Pythium. The commander that auto-cast Communion Slave is nice. But looking at stats I can't understand how they are one of MAs better nations. And Hydra's seem a waste of resources if they only have 6 HP.
Ashdod and Jotunheim. Heat/Cold respectively, seem great with a Nature Bless minimum. So the way I'm seeing it now is that we need atleast one of these nations.

Lavaere wrote:I've just been playing some test games in MA.
Pythium. The commander that auto-cast Communion Slave is nice. But looking at stats I can't understand how they are one of MAs better nations. And Hydra's seem a waste of resources if they only have 6 HP.
Ashdod and Jotunheim. Heat/Cold respectively, seem great with a Nature Bless minimum. So the way I'm seeing it now is that we need atleast one of these nations.

Remember how tuff those hydras were in LA NvVI. Don't know if they are the same in MA, but I recall rdonj mentioning it was because of regeneration and multiple 6 hp heads, not just one. Don't know if they are better than any other in MA, but in LA at least QM seemed to think so.

We do need to hear from the other noobs (excepting Unoptimized) regarding at least what their top picks might be. Joelz and (?) anyone else.

Hydras have 6 small heads at 6 hp each and one big head at... 30? hp. No matter how large a hit is, it cannot destroy more than one head at a time, so things like knights are sort of wasted. The only efficient way to kill them is with swarms of arrows. They then have huge attack, deal many attacks at significant damage, and regenerate. Hydras are the reason why Pythium expands quickly to begin with.

Edited my preference order above. Seems MA Ashdod is not that high up there on wins at least according to the Hall of Honor thread, Pythium and Pangaea are up there though.

Based on history, I'm guessing Lingchih will probably want Pangaea. Baalz, seems to be inclined towards water nations (if we use them), or Agartha or Ulm perhaps.

Septimius Severus wrote:Edited my preference order above. Seems MA Ashdod is not that high up there on wins at least according to the Hall of Honor thread, Pythium and Pangaea are up there though.

Based on history, I'm guessing Lingchih will probably want Pangaea. Baalz, seems to be inclined towards water nations (if we use them), or Agartha or Ulm perhaps.

MA Ashdod isn't high on the list in the hall of fame because the other nations have been out for far longer. Ashdod is from a recent patch so there hasn't been enough time to win as many games with them.

Lumen has the gist of it. Although my memory seems to suggest 40 hp for the main head. It's not a terribly big difference though either way, ma pythium can do the same with hydras as QM did with them in the first game. The only difference is that in la the hydras are sacred, so have less upkeep and can be blessed. I don't recall QM using a bless on them in that first game though so the same tactics for them should apply.

I think it is likely lingchih will want to make a return to pangaea for this game, but it is hard to be certain. As for Baalz, I don't know that I would say he has a thing for water nations. He's written guides for LA Atlantis and Ma Oceania, but his signature style seems to be heavy blood and teleporting thugs, so to an extent I expect him to pick a blood/astral nation. Or he could do something completely different. Who knows.

As for Ashdod, what MJ said is correct. Also it was only recently that people started realizing just how powerful ashdod really is. They haven't been quite as popular as hinnom was when it came out. Now, ashdod does have a few limitations, but in a team game like this with access to all paths... they're going to be extremely powerful if the vets get ahold of them. Besides you seem to have some experience with ashdod, all in all they are not a bad choice for you to play.

rdonj wrote:As for Ashdod, what MJ said is correct. Also it was only recently that people started realizing just how powerful ashdod really is. They haven't been quite as popular as hinnom was when it came out. Now, ashdod does have a few limitations, but in a team game like this with access to all paths... they're going to be extremely powerful if the vets get ahold of them. Besides you seem to have some experience with ashdod, all in all they are not a bad choice for you to play.

Yes, I do have experience with Ashdod and with Hinnom. I like the whole lot, perhaps I'll bump em a bit higher on my preference list, though I did want to try my hand at Pangaea. Like to hear hear from Joelz, Vellon, Skinu, viccio on their top 4-5 as well.

I'm not too picky about which land nation I get since I don't have very much experience on any of them. Instead I can name a few nations which I'm reluctant to play as:
C'tis
Bandar Log
Any blood or astral heavy nations.
Underwater nations.

I don't know how well I would do as a giant nation.

My list (in order of preference)

-Ermor
-Shinuyama
-Mictlan
-Pythium
-Machaka
-Pangea
-Jotunheim

Joelz wrote:I'm not too picky about which land nation I get since I don't have very much experience on any of them. Instead I can name a few nations which I'm reluctant to play as:
C'tis
Bandar Log
Any blood or astral heavy nations.
Underwater nations.

I don't know how well I would do as a giant nation.

It may be best to just give us your top 3-5 if you can. Save us some time when it comes to building the team list. The more choices you give, the greater chance you'll wind up with something you wouldn't mind playing with. Like yourself I'm not to picky, but I have a few nations I'd like to try anyway. I don't want you to end up with something your not happy with.

Lumen has given a pretty complete listing of nations, rdonj and I can use it and our own judgement to distribute any unchosen nations at the bottom of the team preference list.

Btw, rdonj, if you were playing what would be your top 3-5 MA nation choices? Just out of curiosity?

In no particular order, Ashdod, C'tis, Pangaea, Pythium, Vanheim, and probably Caelum. Bandar Log and Shinuyama also sound interesting. I'd have to do some test runs before I decided though.

Okay then. Well, here's a few nations I wouldn't mind playing with in no particular order:
- Shinuyama
- Man
- Machaka
- Ulm
- Caelum
- Eriu
- Agartha
Of course, as I said before I am not very picky, so if someone else wants to use any of these nations, be my guest.

Skinu, have you decided on your nation preferences?

Unoptimized, what will you be taking?

Waiting on nation selection picks from Vellon, TwoBits, Pelthin, and anyone else who needs to post em. Let us get this out of the way as soon as we can.